or maybe its just a happy coincidence.
Greg wrote:
< So Citrix can give Xen away, erode market share from VMWare, and once Citrix has completed this feat, Microsoft will once and for all break down and buy Citrix after all these years thus solidifying themselves as the leader again.>
My point was that I don't think Citrix is driving the "erosion" at all, I think MS is doing that. Despite a recurring cycle of rumors no one I talk to seems to think that MS buying Citrix is on anyone's roadmap. MS produces generic products generally and really wouldn't know what to do with Citrix, especially the online services and networking products….
Steve Greenberg
Thin Client Computing
34522 N. Scottsdale Rd D8453
Scottsdale, AZ 85266
(602) 432-8649
From: thin-bounce@freelists.org [mailto:thin-bounce@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Greg Reese
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 11:59 AM
So Citrix can give Xen away, erode market share from VMWare, and once Citrix has completed this feat, Microsoft will once and for all break down and buy Citrix after all these years thus solidifying themselves as the leader again.
GregOn Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 11:55 AM, Steve Greenberg <steveg@thinclient.net> wrote:
A very important factor to consider here is the larger market picture otherwise known as the 800lb Gorilla!!!
. Microsoft has made it clear that virtualization will be a feature of the OS going forward. MS fully intends to bundle the hypervisor and sell the managment toolsi that is the new market landscape.
In light of that Citrix is best positioned to embrace reality and leverage it to support and sell their whole product line.
No XEN is not as mature as VMWare but that only matters if you actually need the additional features. XEN actually is a better hypervisor with not as good tools, but serves a big segment of the market well. Most of all it performs and integrates really well with XenApp and XenDesktop and Provisioning Server.
As a result we are delivering amazing integrated solutions with support from a single vendor-without huge and complex storage requirements...
.
VMWare is great but it ends where people need the most help- Application Delivery!!
At one time it was inconceivable that hokey MS products could ever replace Novell or that free LINUX would ever be adopted in the Enterprise.
From my point of view in the near future Citrix will rapidly advance in adoption because it saves real money and solves the more painful issues......
Steve GreenbergSent via BlackBerry by AT&T
From: "Stefan Timmermans"
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 14:37:55 +0100
To: <thin@freelists.org>
Subject: [THIN] Re: Citrix to give away XenServer FREEDear all,
Let me give you a brief feature list of Xen
Xenserver uses ext3/LVM of Linux > < Vmware uses propriepary VMFS1/VMFS2 volumes with limitations in number of files and file depth and copying to and from other deives (imports/exports)
Xenserver has Xenmotion = Vmotion
Xenserver has NIC Bonding (since Xen5) = NIC bonding VMware
Xenserver has intiuitive Xen commands = Vmware improved on that too in ESX 3.X
Xenserver offers performance data = vmwate does that too
Xenserver has Xentools = VMware Tools
Xenserver was les then 1/3 of the Vmware Price and some suggest that on Vmworld Xen will be offered free
Xenserver has Xenapp temlates that are optimised for Xenserver , only 2 to 7 % overhead compared to physical according to Tolly an independent performance report
Enclosed
Xenserver offers High availability meaning resource pools and hostfailure , vmware failover !
Xenserver offers Datacenter failover beit on another way then VMwares solution to automate the whole stuff and generate report
Xenserver has an HCL http://hcl.xensource.com/, surely not as comprenhensive as Vmware !,
Xenserver uses paravirtualisation & hardware assist runs only on Intel/AMD supporting 64 bit CPUs VT or alike CPUs (this is no problem anymore eversince august 2006 and later)
Xenserver is working (with HW vendors) / might already have Xenserver from USB/Solid State Drives
Xenserver uses the Xenserver diskformat (xva) but you could as easily store your files in VHD (MS Hyper V ) format !
XenServer is linked to XenDesktop & Citrix Provisioning server allowing to store VHD
Xenserver adds in paravirutalisation for older Redhad (Entreprise Server 3) & Suse versions (Suse 9/10) or just as well directly deploy
Native Linux virtualisation embedded in te Linux distribution
Xenserver is very tightly integrated with NetApp (NAS , Network attached storage) and the latter supports de-deplucation, meaning that if you store
10 windows images of windows, it optmises storage that if it findes a file on 10 systems, only one file will be kept. The NETAPP add-on allows
to keep track of files on the storage block level ! (no-one can better compare files then on blocklevel, consider the way Acronis TrueImage & Ghost made backup on block level)
Xenserver initially supported NAS, SAN over HBS but no High Availibility in Xen 4/4.1 (has change though from Xen 4 to Xen 5) and Iscsi exists as well (though not sure if this one supports HA).
Xenserver DOES not need an standard/entreprise edition of some DB vendor. Actually all its data is tored on all XenServers. One being the master, all the other ones are standby slaves
That guanatee the operations .Should the master fail, you can't add an Xen to the cluster, but need to run 2 commands basically telling that the master is dead and nominate a new candidate
As the master .Basically the good old Windows NT PDC and BDC stuff .If the PDC broke , you could logon on but can't make changes. All without performance hit.
Xen can be configured to work with a spare Xenserver (an empty Xenserver) making it the preferred choice to failover.
Xenserver is tighly integrated with Xendesktop (a broker front-end with NOT based on RDP and ICA (and this upports more device redirection then any RDP based solution !!!!!)
XenServer is integrated with Xitrix Provisioning servern this one van stream application to you Xenapp/Citrix Presentation Server 4.5 /5 farms and auto load Desktops/Server on your Xenserver !
All you needto do is make several windows/OS builds and set Windows ACLs on it. One user is member of finance and loads on a vmware its Windows XP with his office & Finance apps
Another guy , belongin to another Global Group has an ERP profiles, starts its virtual workstation and loads his ERP desktop. Amazing, it really is.
Moreover, you could even operate Diskless Servers (or blades) all over the world, and provision those to run an image (Windows XP only requires 150MB to travel the network, Vista 250MB)
Which are executed on the diskless device making use of the remote devices mem/CPU and NICs, but writing/caching over the wire.
VMware is still ahead as it comes to DRP (restore) business. On the HA level Xen is up to Vmware.
Xen has NFS/CIF support allowing to create SMB/CIFS NFS mount of your ISO builds of Linux/Windows from within XenCenter
Xen has the xe command line util allowing from a windows device connected to the server/xencenter to launch xen (linux) administration commands just as
You can in the Xen linux console !
AND still
IT people tend to have problems to absorb all the technology is coming out. We all work in our corners believe me .
Once you know Vmware very well , are you going to concede your knowledge and go for another vendors solution do you think ?
Many won't. But in these economic climat we might be forced … so the current climat is kind of an Citrix/Xen opportunity.
I work for an major IT company and see that storage technology refreshes, network technology refreshed ad
Platform technology refreshes could easiliy run your design that you propose if you don't have the complete picture.
I feel that the Citrix organisation is very smart in developing new technologies and makes smart acquisitions, but when it comes to market their stuff ???
I went initially to an Partner Exchange event and saw all this in action ! I really said, Vmware is off the market. Vmware will be the second Novell… but no it isn't.
Actually Xen suffers from the strong footprint of Vmware and its channels , just as Linux (on corporate level) suffered form the Marketing of Microsoft.
I fear that Citrix might decide to burry XenServer it customers are not soon stepping in. I think the free price is their last attempt.
However making it free is not a good idea in these economic circumstances, it offers other IT service companies arms to sell in these hardtimes, but it doesn't bring
money to Citrix does it ? They'd better spend their money in commercials and distribution channel support and contact hardware vendors to get their stuff tested and certified and offer possibilities. To buy the product in a single package with the Hardware vendors box !
So they still have some work to do, but does it pay off ? Is the whole acquisition of Xensource merely a cashdrain ?
We soon find out if this last attempt will pay off… If I was the CIO I would do otherwise. I would aggressively attack the ITproviders and Hardware vendors
And offer integrated solution.
Regards,
Stefan Timmermans
From: thin-bounce@freelists.org [mailto:thin-bounce@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Berny Stapleton
Sent: vrijdag 20 februari 2009 16:48
To: thin@freelists.org
Subject: [THIN] Re: Citrix to give away XenServer FREE
I know shared storage is available in ESX, I have it and am using it now.
I didn't know Citrix had shared storage on XenServer, what are they using for a filesystem?
Berny2009/2/20 Joe Shonk <joe.shonk@gmail.com>
What do you mean? Shared storage is available now with VMware ESX and XenServer. Microsoft is slated to have shared cluster support in Win 2008 R2.
Joe
From: thin-bounce@freelists.org [mailto:thin-bounce@freelists.org]On Behalf Of Berny Stapleton
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 7:44 AM
To: thin@freelists.org
Subject: [THIN] Re: Citrix to give away XenServer FREE
Oh one more thing, lets see who gets their finger out first to do shared storage out of the box. (Yes, I know RedHat has it with GFS, but I haven't exactly heard of a lot of people using it)
VMWare supports this now with their FS (VMFS) on EMC and NetApp.2009/2/20 Berny Stapleton <berny@technology.net.au>
Xen in different flavours can be gotten from anywhere. MS is giving it away with Windows 2003 R2, Xen is available in multiple Linux kernels and distributions. So effectively, yes, it is free now.
VMWare have given out ESXi for nothing, but it's the management tools that cost (VMotion etc)
If Citrix release all their management tools and everything else for nothing, then the problem for VMWare then becomes "What are you guys selling, and why should I buy it?". Mind you, that would effectively destroy the market.
Berny2009/2/20 Andrew Wood <andrew.wood@gilwood-cs.co.uk>
But essentially its free *now* isn't it – its free for servers if you're not going to do any management on them?
The hypervisor component is a mere bagatelle imo .. all the major players are looking to support the same image type – its essentially 'all cars run on petrol' –it's the management of the virtual services, the feeding and the watering of them for enterprise solutions – that's where the development and license cost is going to go ... as well as services obviously.
From: thin-bounce@freelists.org [mailto:thin-bounce@freelists.org]On Behalf Of Greg Reese
Sent: 20 February 2009 12:39
To: Thin
Subject: [THIN] Re: Citrix to give away XenServer FREE
Microsoft is going to love watching a price war.
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 20, 2009, at 1:47 AM, Berny Stapleton <berny@technology.net.au> wrote:Umm, I think EMC still own part of them, but they were seperated and floated.
> How come I get the feeling that VMWare is the next Novell!
I hadn't thought about that, but everyone seems to be rallying around Xen, and if VMWare don't drop their price, it could well be a right thrashing for them.
Berny2009/2/20 Greg Reese <gareese@gmail.com>
Vmware is still an emc company right?
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 19, 2009, at 10:57 PM, "Steve Greenberg" <steveg@thinclient.net> wrote:Not a bad choice this week but after next week the rumors are strong that not only is Citrix going to give away the hypervisor, but also the Enterprise features such as Xen Motion and storage repositories. It will get very interesting, very quickly if this really happens!!
How come I get the feeling that VMWare is the next Novell!?!!?! J
Steve Greenberg
Thin Client Computing
34522 N. Scottsdale Rd D8453
Scottsdale, AZ 85266
(602) 432-8649
From: thin-bounce@freelists.org [mailto:thin-bounce@freelists.org]On Behalf Of Jan
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 3:24 PM
To: thin@freelists.org
Subject: [THIN] Re: Citrix to give away XenServer FREE
Wow... we recently bought VMware ESX for 7 servers. I'm wondering if that was a bad fiscal choice in light of this.
On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Tim <timothylanderson@gmail.com> wrote:
Error! Filename not specified.
Free XenServer virtualization hypervisor helps Citrix, partners say
Error! Filename not specified.
By Colin Steele, Site Editor
19 Feb 2009 | SearchSystemsChannel.com
The server virtualization hypervisor wars are heating up. Citrix plans to give away XenServer 5 -- its Xen hypervisor, along with live migration, native Windows and Linux support and other advanced features -- for free.
Rest of article at....
