Saturday, February 21, 2009

[THIN] Re: Citrix to give away XenServer FREE

Keep in mind that Citrix only acquired XenServer not too long ago and the product has come along quite a bit since the acquisition.   I feel Citrix is going in the right direction  but the simple fact is the product is not there yet.  VMware had a head start and it shows.  The products are much more polished and mature and as a result they have the lion share of the market.

 

The list you provided is good, but it’s not an apples to apples comparison… Even when you take a look a something  like HA the baby Marathon solution included in XS 5 doesn’t cut it.  Anyone who tells you otherwise works for Citrix, Marathon or they’ve never implemented the feature in a large production environment.   There are also a lot features in ESX/vCenter that do not exist yet in XenServer.

 

That being said,  we have sold and implement quite a few license of XenServer since the Citrix acquisition so I can speak from experience.   It is great hypervisior.  The tools sets are coming along.  It’s not quite there yet but getting close.

 

Joe

 

 

 

From: thin-bounce@freelists.org [mailto:thin-bounce@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Stefan Timmermans
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 6:38 AM
To: thin@freelists.org
Subject: [THIN] Re: Citrix to give away XenServer FREE

 

Dear all,

 

Let me give you a brief feature list of Xen

 

Xenserver uses ext3/LVM of Linux > < Vmware uses propriepary VMFS1/VMFS2 volumes with limitations in number of files and file depth and copying to and from other deives (imports/exports)

Xenserver has Xenmotion = Vmotion

Xenserver has NIC Bonding (since Xen5) = NIC bonding VMware

Xenserver has intiuitive Xen commands = Vmware improved on that too in ESX 3.X

Xenserver offers performance data = vmwate does that too

Xenserver has Xentools = VMware Tools

Xenserver was les then 1/3 of the Vmware Price and some suggest that on Vmworld Xen will be offered free

Xenserver has Xenapp temlates that are optimised  for Xenserver , only 2 to 7 % overhead compared to physical according to Tolly an independent performance report

Enclosed

Xenserver offers High availability meaning resource pools and hostfailure , vmware failover !

Xenserver offers Datacenter failover beit on another way then VMwares solution to automate the whole stuff and generate report

Xenserver has an HCL http://hcl.xensource.com/, surely not as comprenhensive as Vmware !,

Xenserver uses paravirtualisation & hardware assist runs only on Intel/AMD supporting 64 bit CPUs VT or alike CPUs (this is no problem anymore eversince august 2006 and later)

Xenserver  is working (with HW vendors) / might already have Xenserver from USB/Solid State Drives

Xenserver uses the Xenserver diskformat (xva) but you could as easily store your files in VHD (MS Hyper V ) format !

XenServer is linked to XenDesktop & Citrix Provisioning server allowing to store VHD

Xenserver adds in paravirutalisation for older Redhad (Entreprise Server 3)  & Suse versions (Suse 9/10) or just as well directly deploy

Native Linux virtualisation embedded in te Linux distribution

Xenserver is very tightly integrated with NetApp (NAS , Network attached storage) and the latter supports de-deplucation, meaning that if you store

10 windows images of windows, it optmises storage that if it findes a file on 10 systems, only one file will be kept. The NETAPP add-on allows

to keep track of files on the storage block level ! (no-one can better compare files then on blocklevel, consider the way Acronis TrueImage & Ghost made backup on block level)

Xenserver initially supported NAS, SAN over HBS but no High Availibility in Xen 4/4.1 (has change though from Xen 4 to Xen 5) and  Iscsi exists as well (though not sure if this one supports HA).

Xenserver DOES not need an standard/entreprise edition of some DB vendor. Actually all its data is tored on all XenServers. One being the master, all the other ones are standby slaves

That guanatee the operations .Should the master fail, you can’t add an Xen to the cluster, but need to run 2 commands basically telling that the master is dead and nominate a new candidate

As the master .Basically the good old Windows NT PDC and BDC stuff .If the PDC broke , you could logon on but can’t make changes. All without performance hit.

Xen can be configured to work with a spare Xenserver (an empty Xenserver) making it the preferred choice to failover.

Xenserver is tighly integrated with Xendesktop (a broker front-end with NOT based on RDP and ICA (and this upports more device redirection then any RDP based solution !!!!!)

XenServer is integrated with Xitrix Provisioning servern this one van stream application to you Xenapp/Citrix Presentation Server 4.5 /5 farms and auto load Desktops/Server on your Xenserver !

All you needto do is make several windows/OS builds and set Windows ACLs on it. One user is member of finance and loads on a vmware its Windows XP with his office & Finance apps

Another guy , belongin to another Global Group has an ERP profiles, starts its virtual workstation and loads his ERP desktop. Amazing, it really is.

Moreover, you could even operate Diskless Servers (or blades) all over the world, and provision those to run  an image (Windows XP only requires 150MB to travel the network, Vista 250MB)

Which are executed on the diskless device making use of the remote devices mem/CPU and NICs, but writing/caching over the wire.

VMware is still ahead as it comes to DRP (restore) business. On the HA level Xen is up to Vmware.

Xen has NFS/CIF support allowing to create SMB/CIFS NFS mount of your ISO builds of Linux/Windows from within XenCenter

Xen has the xe command line util allowing from a windows device connected to the server/xencenter to launch xen (linux) administration commands just as

You can in the Xen linux console !

 

 

AND still

 

IT people tend to have problems to absorb all the technology is coming out. We all work in our corners believe me .

Once you know Vmware very well , are you going to concede your knowledge and go for another vendors solution do you think ?

Many won’t. But in these economic climat we might be forced … so the current climat is kind of an Citrix/Xen opportunity.

 

I work for an major IT company and see that storage technology refreshes, network technology refreshed ad

Platform technology refreshes could easiliy run your design that you propose if you don’t have the complete picture.

 

I feel that the Citrix organisation is very smart in developing new technologies and makes smart acquisitions, but when it comes to market their stuff ???

I went initially to an Partner Exchange event and saw all this in action ! I really said, Vmware is off the market. Vmware will be the second Novell… but no it isn’t.

Actually Xen suffers from the strong footprint of Vmware and its channels  , just as Linux (on corporate level) suffered form the Marketing of Microsoft.

I fear that Citrix might decide to burry XenServer it customers are not soon stepping in. I think the free price is their last attempt.

 

However making it free is not a good idea in these economic circumstances, it offers other IT service companies arms to sell in these hardtimes, but it doesn’t bring

money to Citrix does it ? They’d better spend their money in commercials and distribution channel support and contact hardware vendors to get their stuff tested and certified and offer possibilities. To buy the product in a single package with the Hardware vendors box !

 

 

So they still have some work to do, but does it pay off ? Is the whole acquisition of Xensource merely a cashdrain ?

We soon find out if this last attempt will pay off… If I was the CIO I would do otherwise. I would  aggressively attack the ITproviders and Hardware vendors

And offer integrated solution.

 

Regards,

 

 

Stefan Timmermans

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: thin-bounce@freelists.org [mailto:thin-bounce@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Berny Stapleton
Sent: vrijdag 20 februari 2009 16:48
To: thin@freelists.org
Subject: [THIN] Re: Citrix to give away XenServer FREE

 

I know shared storage is available in ESX, I have it and am using it now.

I didn't know Citrix had shared storage on XenServer, what are they using for a filesystem?

Berny

2009/2/20 Joe Shonk <joe.shonk@gmail.com>

What do you mean?  Shared storage is available now with VMware ESX and XenServer.  Microsoft is slated to have shared cluster support in Win 2008 R2.

 

Joe

 

From: thin-bounce@freelists.org [mailto:thin-bounce@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Berny Stapleton
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 7:44 AM


To: thin@freelists.org
Subject: [THIN] Re: Citrix to give away XenServer FREE

 

Oh one more thing, lets see who gets their finger out first to do shared storage out of the box. (Yes, I know RedHat has it with GFS, but I haven't exactly heard of a lot of people using it)

VMWare supports this now with their FS (VMFS) on EMC and NetApp.

2009/2/20 Berny Stapleton <berny@technology.net.au>

Xen in different flavours can be gotten from anywhere. MS is giving it away with Windows 2003 R2, Xen is available in multiple Linux kernels and distributions. So effectively, yes, it is free now.

VMWare have given out ESXi for nothing, but it's the management tools that cost (VMotion etc)

If Citrix release all their management tools and everything else for nothing, then the problem for VMWare then becomes "What are you guys selling, and why should I buy it?". Mind you, that would effectively destroy the market.

Berny

2009/2/20 Andrew Wood <andrew.wood@gilwood-cs.co.uk>

 

But essentially its free *now* isn't it – its free for servers if you're not going to do any management on them?

 

The hypervisor component is a mere bagatelle imo .. all the major players are looking to support the same image type – its essentially 'all cars run on petrol' –it's the management of the virtual services, the feeding and the watering of them for enterprise solutions – that's where the development and license cost is going to go ... as well as services obviously.

 

 

 

From: thin-bounce@freelists.org [mailto:thin-bounce@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Greg Reese
Sent: 20 February 2009 12:39
To: Thin


Subject: [THIN] Re: Citrix to give away XenServer FREE

 

Microsoft is going to love watching a price war. 

Sent from my iPhone


On Feb 20, 2009, at 1:47 AM, Berny Stapleton <berny@technology.net.au> wrote:

Umm, I think EMC still own part of them, but they were seperated and floated.

> How come I get the feeling that VMWare is the next Novell!

I hadn't thought about that, but everyone seems to be rallying around Xen, and if VMWare don't drop their price, it could well be a right thrashing for them.

Berny

2009/2/20 Greg Reese <gareese@gmail.com>

Vmware is still an emc company right?

Sent from my iPhone


On Feb 19, 2009, at 10:57 PM, "Steve Greenberg" <steveg@thinclient.net> wrote:

Not  a bad choice this week but after next week the rumors are strong that not only is Citrix going to give away the hypervisor, but also the Enterprise features such as Xen Motion and storage repositories. It will get very interesting, very quickly if this really happens!!

 

How come I get the feeling that VMWare is the next Novell!?!!?!  J

 

Steve Greenberg

Thin Client Computing

34522 N. Scottsdale Rd D8453

Scottsdale, AZ 85266

(602) 432-8649

www.thinclient.net

steveg@thinclient.net

 

From: thin-bounce@freelists.org [mailto:thin-bounce@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Jan
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 3:24 PM
To: thin@freelists.org
Subject: [THIN] Re: Citrix to give away XenServer FREE

 

Wow... we recently bought VMware ESX for 7 servers. I'm wondering if that was a bad fiscal choice in light of this.

On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Tim <timothylanderson@gmail.com> wrote:

 

Error! Filename not specified.

 

Free XenServer virtualization hypervisor helps Citrix, partners say

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By Colin Steele, Site Editor
19 Feb 2009 | SearchSystemsChannel.com

 

 

 

 

The server virtualization hypervisor wars are heating up. Citrix plans to give away XenServer 5 -- its Xen hypervisor, along with live migration, native Windows and Linux support and other advanced features -- for free.

Rest of article at....

 

 

 

 

 

Posted by thinlist at 12:01 PM

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